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The Need for Respect

Hand-to-hand political combat in the heat of political campaigns certainly exists. But outside of that, it seems to me that good, reasoned debate on public policy issues demands respect for the ideas of others.

This is not as easy as it sounds.

This issue arose when two conservative bloggers (and friends of mine) were appointed as columnists at The Union (Nevada County’s newspaper), and agreed to have their blog content aggregated on theunion.com. The controversy was based on the fact that neither is a particularly ardent believer in man-made global warming.

(Disclaimer: I just don’t know what I think about this issue. Clearly, climate changes have been occurring for hundreds of years. Many important climate changes have been happening in the last few years. How much is man-made, I don’t really know. I’m interested in reading more about it when I get a break from  drinking at the fire hose of educational reform.)

The Union’s former editor, Jeff Pelline (another friend of mine) referred to the two of them as extreme. I like Jeff, and I think he has a pretty level-headed approach to most issues, although from his writing, it’s clear I’m probably a little more conservative than he is. (I used to be big into trying to label myself, now not so much. Labels are a little too simple.)

I worry about our public discourse when we fall into simply referring to others as extreme. I know it’s called for at times, but as I pointed out in the comments on Jeff’s post, one man’s extremism is another’s moderation.

Disrespect for other viewpoints is clearly in vogue at NCVoices.com, where the editor of that site (a woman named Anna, who I haven’t met) has taken the position that her view on global warming is completely correct, and places disclaimers on the opposing view telling readers in effect not to believe anything written there, and saying of those writers, “They must not have children, or else not like them much.” Because this really didn’t look like humor — and I’m the first person to appreciate humor — it appeared like both an absurd and disrespectful statement.

When we fail to respect each other’s view points, and simply reject their thoughts without consideration on the merits, we have no basis to actually debate. The result is polarization, balkanization and talking past each other. Not really healthy for a representative democracy.

To sum it all up, a fellow by the name of Tom Grundy signed on and wrote the following comments on Jeff Pelline’s blog in response to my point about respect.

Right on. Granted, we don’t yet know if Russ and George will suddenly become more well-rounded and open-minded in their posts, but, the Union is probably banking on the fact that they will stay as inflammatory as they have been in the past. It’s great for upping the ratings and the web hits by online commenters, etc.

I don’t really know Tom, but I want to make something clear. Russ and George don’t need to change their opinions (one possible definition of “well-rounded” and “open-minded”) to have respect for the opinions of others. I hope they express that respect by using their column space in The Union to disagree with others using data and reason, not just out-of-hand rejection.

And Jeff, Anna, Tom, Dixie, Zuri and all of the other people involved in this saga don’t have to change (or feel threatened in) their opinions to respect the viewpoints of George and Russ. I think Dixie said it most eloquently in her post: limiting yourself to only one viewpoint is like eating the same thing every day for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I thought of trying to embed a YouTube video of the Beatles with “All You Need is Love”, but I thought that would be over the top.

  • jeff pelline

    hi aaron,
    ncvoices.com is bookmarked by people of all political stripes because it’s the most complete local *aggregation* site around. anna’s politics aren’t an issue for that exercise except for russ. few have been more *disrespectful* to the union staff over the years than these two. some people who used to complain how unconstructive that was (past and present) are now turning a blind eye. to each his own. i think some of the inflammatory posts i referred to are a pretty extreme form of conservatism.

    • http://www.aaronklein.com Aaron Klein

      I hear you. But I have to say, if I was Anna, I wouldn’t treat other people’s opinions with such disdain if I truly wanted to be “one community, many voices.” If she’s right on the merits, what does she have to fear? Why paint other people, who want good things for our community, country and planet too, with such a negative and stereotypical brush? If I talked that way about everyone I disagreed with, I’d have no time to say positive things. :)

      I have observed George, Russ and others level some harsh critiques against The Union and you. To be honest, back when I saw those, I wasn’t paying that close of attention to either the critique or its merits. All I can speak of is my own experience — you in particular and The Union in general were always incredibly fair to me. Especially when compared to some of the other local media I’ve dealt with, it was a pleasant experience to have that kind of professionalism.

      (That doesn’t mean you only wrote nice things…I took my lumps a few times. But the even-handedness was very evident to me.)

      So chalk this up to hoping that we can bridge some differences and discuss issues on the merits, without things getting personal. I admire all three of you too much to not be able to be friends with you all. :)

    • http://www.aaronklein.com Aaron Klein

      I don’t know that I even brushed the surface on Anna’s incendiary language either. “Current or past ties to CABPRO”? What, is this like the Nazi party in her mind?

      Last I checked, the Board of Supervisors was pretty well pro-private property rights. It’s not like CABPRO’s basic charter is outside of the mainstream of political thought. So I guess one could call Anna extreme, but I’d prefer not to go there.

      Way too much nuance to go into here, but I really believe you can be for private property rights and still believe in being a good steward of the Earth we’ve been entrusted with. The two aren’t opposites, and if you go too far to one extreme or the other, you start having problems.

      But at the end of the day, I don’t like that Anna doesn’t think I’m capable of being a “reality-based reader” while reading stuff from CABPRO, and balancing it as I see fit.

  • Steve Linthicum

    Of interest Aaron is that one of the recent decisions I made was to seek the appointment to the Park and Open Space Commission here in Loomis. Competition must not have been an issue, since I was appointed. Rationale for doing this volunteer opportunity is I selfishly think I can promote a more balanced approach, coupling my knowledge of the line where governmental regulatory action begins to cross the line towards a taking without just compensation. This of course becomes somewhat of a balancing act. It will be interesting to see how my thoughts and positions mesh with other Commission members. This has little to do with the subject matter of this thread, except to suggest that differing views, where parties act with respect to each other, can promote healthy dialogue.

    Steve

    • http://www.aaronklein.com Aaron Klein

      Steve, good for you. It is a good point…differing views themselves often promote better decisions. Glad to hear you are getting involved there.

  • http://www.aaronklein.com Aaron Klein

    It has just come to my attention that Anna Haynes just discovered this blog post. Since the post mentions her, it’s only fair for me to reopen comments on the post so she can comment.

    In a few days, when the discussion wanes, I’ll re-close the comments. My standard setting is to close comments after 14 days, which keeps the debate relevant. Any discussion still raging after two weeks is usually nothing more than a flame war, which fortunately, we’ve had very little of on this blog. :)

  • http://ncvoices.us Anna Haynes

    Some people treat all opinions as equally valuable and worthy of attention. Scientists don’t. Neither does reality.

    “Reality is that which, when you refuse to believe in it, doesn’t go away”

    I can’t allow Nevada County Voices to be used as a conduit for confusing our community on an issue as crucial as this one. Yes, NCVoices readers should be – are are – made aware that voices like Steele’s and Rebane’s are out there. But they should also be cautioned that these voices are 180 degrees away from the mainstream scientific understanding of climate change – these fellows espouse the views that the fossil fuel industries are trying to spread.

    If they succeed, we lose.

    Aaron Klein has made the point that there’s no consensus among the public on climate change; this is true, the public is appallingly far away from the climate scientists’ view.

    I’d prefer to have Nevada County Voices working to help shrink this gap. I can’t educate Russ and George – I’ve tried, on Russ’s blog in all of Sept 2007, but it was like water off a duck’s back. And because it takes much, much less time to spew out disinformation than to clear it up – again, see Julian Sanchez on this – countering Russ for the rest of his blog’s life would be a very low return on investment.

    Aaron, someone in education has a moral responsibility to educate himself on this issue. And you should do it for yourself and family – unlike Russ and George, you’re going to be living through what’s coming, and there’s enough of a pixel trail that people then will know what you did and did not stand for, now.

    Be a hero, Aaron.

    • http://www.aaronklein.com Aaron Klein

      The messianic quality with which you approach this issue is somewhat disturbing, frankly. “Be a hero”? I don’t think the world is going to come to an end if I don’t figure out climate change in the next month.

      More disturbing is how your approach leaves very little room to discuss or debate, but then again, I think that’s your intention.

      Last I checked, science is the process of “investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.”

      Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant that you want to correct previous knowledge about climate change, but refuse to consider that your new knowledge might also be correctable?

      I mean, let’s just be intellectually consistent here, for a change.

      Going back to the real topic of this post. It’s not about whether climate change is real or not. It’s about whether you’re going to hide behind insults like “deniers” or you’re going to accept the fact that there are more points of view than YOURS on this issue.

      Contrary to your assertions, this is not a settled debate. You can’t say a belief is out of the mainstream when most voters, your own congressional representative and half of the United States House of Representatives disagrees with you!

      If you’re confident in your data and facts — and I assume you are — then you have no reason to hide behind your insults and silly labels. If you’re right, you can argue with reason and logic, and you’ll win.

  • http://warming101.com Anna Haynes

    I never knew "be a hero" would be insulting. My bad.

    Please read the Sanchez post -
    http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/04/06/climate-change-and-argumentative-fallacies/

    Sanchez, a libertarian, explains why it’s pointless for anyone to listen to nonscientists doing an eternal back-and-forth about climate change in blog comments. Assessing credibility of sources is the best strategy for nonexperts to take.

    More on Russ’s Steele’s contrarian blog,
    http://ncwatch.typepad.com/media/2009/07/looking-through-a-crooked-glass.html

  • http://warming101.com Anna Haynes

    I meant, more in the _comments_ on that blog post- I’m not recommending the blog itself for information.

    realclimate.org is a good starting place, or the blogs I’ve aggregated at warming101.com

    Aaron, what field did you get your BA in?

  • http://warming101.com Anna Haynes

    as for credible sources – I’d recommend this group:

    U.S. National Academy of Sciences; American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS); American Meteorological Society (AMS); National Research Council; Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS); Federal Climate Change Science Program; National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA); American Geophysical Union; Geological Society of America; American Chemical Society; Federal Climate Change Science Program, 2006 – commissioned by the Bush administration in 2002; Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia); American Association of State Climatologists; US Geological Survey (USGS); National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) ; NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS); World Meteorological Organization; Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospherice Sciences; International Council on Science; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); American Astronomical Society; Chinese Academy of Sciences, China; Royal Society, United Kingdom; Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia; Academia Brasiliera de Ciencias, Brazil; Royal Society of Canada, Canada; Academie des Sciences, France; Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher, Germany; Indian National Science Academy, India; Accademia dei Lincei, Italy; Science Council of Japan, Japan; Australian Academy of Sciences; Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts; Brazilian Academy of Sciences; Royal Society of Canada; Caribbean Academy of Sciences; Chinese Academy of Sciences; French Academy of Sciences; German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina; Indian National Science Academy; Indonesian Academy of Sciences; Royal Irish Academy; Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei (Italy); Academy of Sciences Malaysia; Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand; Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences; Royal Society (UK); Woods Hole Research Center; Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC); The Australian Meteorological And Oceanographic Society; the American Institute of Physics; The Pentagon; Presidents from 319+ Universities and Colleges; Arnold Schwarzenegger; Tony Blair; President Clinton; British Energy Minister Malcolm Wicks; John McCain; The Economist; USA Today; BBC; The Australian; and the Christian Science Monitor.
    (source:LogicalScience.com).

  • http://www.aaronklein.com Aaron Klein

    Anna, Anna, Anna…you continue to try to make this about your pet issue and not about how you deal with issues and debate. The title of this post is “The Need for Respect”. It had nothing to do with global warming.

    I don’t see the use of continuing this discussion. I’ll cross-post my comment from Russ Steele’s blog here to wrap this up:

    So I can’t figure it out, Anna. Are you not a scientist, and you’re just blindly following Krugman and Sanchez, or are you indeed scientifically informed and know your facts?

    Again, science is the process of investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.

    Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant that you want to correct previous knowledge about climate change, but refuse to consider that your new knowledge might also be correctable?

    You do not have a monopoly on science, Anna. Figure that out and it might be worth debating some things with you.

    The impression you’re giving me is that you actually don’t know your facts despite the PhD you keep listing everywhere. Because you just keep posting the same two links: Krugman writing a political screed with his same old political biases, and Sanchez trying to give you cover for ignoring anyone you disagree with.

    Well God Bless America, but neither of those links state anything that proves your point of view!

    Heck, I could go find some links where people think all of climate change is a complete hoax. I don’t necessarily believe them any more than I believe you at this point. But the act of throwing out a link to a political column proves absolutely nothing. It’s just laughable.

    As for me, I believe that people respond to logic and reason. That’s how I won the fight to create a balanced budget at Sierra College and as a result, we built reserves that have made us one of the best prepared community college districts in the state, and are going to preserve hundreds of student slots and the jobs of many, many teachers.

    I have dealt with folks like you both to my left and right. You cling to your preconceived notions with a religious zeal and snarl in reaction to any possibility that you might be wrong.

    No offense, but I’m not really interested in discussing issues with folks like you, on the left or right. I prefer to live in the world of logic and reason.


Aaron Klein is CEO at Riskalyze, a Sierra College Trustee, and an adoption and orphan advocate. Most important: a husband and dad striving to live Isaiah 1:17. More »

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